debate

1. While I prefer that animals I eat live a peaceful life and have as quick and painless a death as possible I am not bothered by them being killed and consumed by humans or any other animals. And your analogy doesn't really sync with me since I value human life over animal life. 2. I don't care to debate you if it isn't going anywhere. Your opinion could be "stronger" just because you are more passionate or invested in the topic at hand. You win. I'm still not vegan, no one else who read the thread changed their mind...but you win. Cool 3. Boiling ALIVE, not boiling period. I had boiled chicken last night. 4. I'd rather have a healthy diet that I could enjoy. I really enjoy my "mouth pleasure" ...But I also enjoy less expensive, more varied and accessible options to get all the nutrients that I need. And that demand is easier to meet with meat. 5. It's more important to me. Maybe it's because of how I was raised, maybe it's socialization, maybe it's because I don't identify with a chicken, a fish, or a cow enough to feel really sad when it dies vs. ALWAYS FEELING sick when I see a child die. I can't force those emotions. I value human life more. Also @Orangemilk, that baseline is decided by the collective isn't it? Right and wrong are ideas held by the individual. IT just so happens that when it comes to many things we're all for the most part in agreement on it.

How so? Pigs are smarter than babies, so why is it crueler? Hypotheticals are needed as thought experiments to show the inconsistencies in ones statements. From what i read it's because of our intelligence and capability for complex emotions, but animals also show that. Intelligence is not an indication of deserving moral consideration, as we in our society have people with IQ's lower than a pig and people who feel no emotion. Should we farm them?

Who said that it gave us domain over other animals? I believe in treating all life with kindness and respect, unless they pose a threat to our well being. Surely you’ve swatted a few mosquitos in your lifetime. I simply believe that our superior intellect, expression, and range of emotions allow us to experience the world in a way which is unparalleled by any other beings on this planet, and that comparatively, that seems far more valuable to retain/cultivate. I never said other animals couldn’t experience or produce complex emotions/expression. I merely said that they never come close to equaling those found in human beings. You’re really contriving a lot of assumptions.

"we in our society have people with IQ's lower than a pig and people who feel no emotion. Should we farm them?" Lamby acting like we don't already do that.

@BurningHalo Yes it's decided by the collective, and hopefully the idea of veganism will be popular enough that it eventually becomes a moral baseline that has come to a consensus by the collective. Heres hoping!

If it’s decided by the collective, then being an omnivore really seems to be a whole lot more moral than sticking to a strict vegan diet.

Two interesting videos I found on both sides of the abortion debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdHgIspyoJ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2PAajlHbnU

1. Again, how well does something need to be treated before you have the right to kill it? Please answer this 2. Then why did you debate me? To get me to be a carnist? Surely you understood this would just be a battle of opinions. 3. Again, boiling ALIVE can be a faster method of death instead of some slaughterhouses. Like having your throat slit and hung upside down to bleed while your still alive, that happens. Or chickens being so scared of the truck on the way to the slaughterhouse that they hold onto the air holes and people have to rip them off, which ends up ripping their entire legs off. How do you even know your food is "ethically" sourced? Farm raised and free range have no legal definition, and i'll reiterate, they all end up in slaughterhouses in the end. There is no nice way they kill chickens. It's always throat slit. 4. Veganism is the less expensive route, idk why your ignoring this. Especially if your buying "ethically sourced" meat. Either your being intellectually dishonest, or lying. 5. Have you heard the cries of a mother cow when her calves been taken away? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOXFm2-wty4 this doesn't break your heart? what about this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYitStpoW1E Nothing? You don't feel anything? And why can't you value human life AND animal life and well being?