The " Nice guy" and "Friendzone"

People were a lot less confrontational and a lot more sympathetic about this whole issue back when it was called "unrequited love." The language used when talking about this kind of thing just muddies the waters. "Oh, he's in the 'friend zone' because he was too much of a 'nice guy.'" That's gonna mean something different to everyone who reads it. Here's how I see the issue: A lot of guys out there are at a disadvantage when it comes to women and that reflects in how they court. Maybe they're shy. Maybe they lack confidence. Maybe they're socially awkward. Maybe they're bad at reading people. Maybe they just don't know how to flirt. So they try and connect with the person they're into the best way they know how: By being super-nice and doing whatever they can for them. So when, for one reason or another, that doesn't work, they're left 1: Disappointed, dejected, perhaps depressed, because this relationship they put so much time, effort, maybe money into didn't pan out the way they wanted it to, not to mention the pain of being rejected by another human being, which can be substantial, and 2: Wondering what they did wrong. They only did what they knew, and got rejected as a result. However, because they're nice people, and because they still care about the person they'd attempted to court, they'll opt to remain friends (Even though this might be the exact wrong thing to do in this situation), thus the "friend zone." People talk about how friends are a wonderful thing to have, and that's true, but when you're going for the whole deal: A romantic relationship, but you end up with a friendship, I can't fathom not understanding being disappointed about that, not to mention the fact that having those unrequited feelings, for your new "friend," as well as all the various involved thoughts, memories, and whatnot, dredged up every time you see them can drive a person crazy. I feel like there's a lot of focus on looks whenever the "friend zone" topic gets discussed, and I don't think that's pertinent. I feel like there's a lot of misplaced passive-aggression toward men when this topic gets discussed, and not enough practical, actionable advice toward making these guys better at attracting the women they want to get with. And I feel like this problem is caused, in large part, by the expectation put on men to always be the initiator of romantic encounters, even in instances where the woman is also interested, and that the problem could be solved, again, in large part, by women taking more initiative in the romantic encounters they want to see happen and being forthright with what they want in a man.

Ah the mythical and magical friendzone..... It does exist but the term is usually employed with a broad brush I have noticed. In general because we live in a lawful society(I use the term loosely lol) people usually try to be civil. People will often try to let a would be suitor down easy because they do not want to hurt their feelings or penalize them for having the guts to approach them, unless it was done in a really bad manner. Everyone has to face social anxiety to some extent growing up so people can relate. They may even offer platonic friendship, this is not always the friendzone but the rejected party can self-impose it sometimes. Sometimes these are genuine nice guys/girls but sometimes they are not actually nice and are being passively manipulative. Some just have poor social skills and can do this with without realizing it because they just don't know better, or want to see it. They will bide their time and hope one day they get a shot. They sometimes task themselves to 'earn' what they can never buy. They have better odds in a casino than on that path IMHO. As one mentioned one day they might have a major meltdown and project all that angst on their crush and it can get ugly or even dangerous. In anime you see these characters that say "I am just happy being close to them" when they really want the full deal. It is a very self destructive practice. There are people who will recognize these kinds of situations and happily exploit them. Sometimes this is also employed to force someone away who won't take a kind no for an answer. This is the friendzone intentionally applied by the one who rejects and I think is where the original stigma came from. Some people like having pets and servants and will even demean them publicly for amusement. There are those who enjoy being the doormat but it is very rare. Not everyone you find attractive is meant for you and you have to put those feelings aside if they are not going to be reciprocated. Like Seph said, you have to work on yourself if you are having difficulties. There is no shame in recognizing you can't do something on your own and have to work it out, if even via outside help. The true shame is denying oneself their potential happiness without really trying IMHO. Life is a work in progress until your last breath. I will leave you with wise words from the original bad boy rebel without a cause James Dean: Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die tomorrow.

Nothing wrong with being a nice guy. The common misconception is that a nice guy is someone who gets rejected and blames it on being too "nice". The reality is woman can be selfish, horny jerks that would rather keep someone who treats them well as emotional support - but use a more attractive, aggressive male for sex. I've found being open, affectionate and nice is just who I am. I haven't stopped being nice but I *have* kicked girls to the curb when I see the friend-zone happening. Not worth my time putting in the effort of a relationship when I don't get my needs met in return. This is totally different from women who are actually good friends. That's no different than any friendship bond.

I will say that I have noticed that in some instances, the reason the guy blames it in him being to nice, is because that's what the girl tells him. " you're just to nice". And I think Anubis had some good points

I like how most of the guys here have unflattering opinions about how women are and act. 1. You are not a woman. 2. You are not a woman. 3. You are not a woman. You can't just go and say oh "women are like this.." or "women only like.." if you haven't identified as a woman. I mean you can, but it doesn't make you right. Goes both ways btw. And if a "person" doesn't like you for aesthetic reasons? Then so what? Even if you were nice, so what? So what? That can also go for personality traits and life styles. People can have preferences! And types! That doesn't make them shallow or mean. Saying that someone friended you because they don't dig your looks even though your "nice" makes you shallow.

The problems is "nice guy" is a buzzword now. People say "nice guy" when they're referring specifically to the concept of a guy who feels "entitled" to sex from women because they're polite to them. Which is a strawman, since, 1: These guys are, for the most part, looking for love, not just sex, and 2: Someone who feels "entitled" usually isn't also compelled to do a lot of extra work to obtain whatever they feel "entitled" to and, from my knowledge and experience, these guys bust their asses doing whatever they can to please the girl they're after. So, it's important to make a distinction between "nice guys" and guys who are nice people, but are at a disadvantage romantically for some reason or another and, as a result, don't interact with women very often past friendship. Honestly, I think saying the guy was "being too nice" is a cop-out answer used to let the guy down gently and not hurt his feelings. Problem is, it doesn't help anyone. I mean, if "being too nice" is the issue, how does the guy solve that problem? Is he supposed to be a jerk? Telling the guy he was "being too nice" is just a self-gratifying way of pushing the issue aside and avoiding addressing the actual reasons she doesn't want to date the guy and, parallel to that, the reasons the guy can't seem to get a girlfriend. This is why I say that this situation could be helped by women being more forthright with what they want in a man. Problem is, when the guy musters up the courage to ask why she didn't choose him (And let's be honest, most of the time it doesn't even reach this point), she knows she hurt him by ignoring his feelings (Doesn't necessarily *care* that she hurt him, but knows) and doesn't want to make herself look stuck-up by listing off everything about the guy that she finds unappealing, even though that would give him points on which to improve so he can have more success in dating, so it becomes "you're just too nice" which feels good to her, but helps no one.

Anubis FTW. Like i said before Ive been told I was too nice before.. I always ask in text(People are more honest thru text IMO it provides a shield) why you werent interested.. I have gotten a wide range of reasons.. You're a big guy.. Your not sexually attractive to me.. You're darkskin.. and my personal favorite. I was actually told once that I was too laid back.. This girl was excited by arguments and chaos.. She needs a BF to drive her wild in order to have fun.. "You miss every shot you don't take" Now I dont give two shits about being rejected! "Oh, you dont like me? Cool.." Ill never forget I asked this chick for her number and she told me "Ew, no." I replyed "Ok" and walked away.. I continued to be the life of party having fun telling jokes.. and by the end of the night she approached me and apologized and gave me her number.. She simply rejected me cause i didnt seem sexually attractive off the bat.. but after I turned on my social charm, and was funny.. Now I hit one of her points on her checklist.. Like I said before.. You gotta have something to stand out with.. Be a shiny object! Personality is always key, but you gotta get past the first impression.. The first impression is everything.. I READ(THIS IS NOT ME SPEAKING) that most girls already decide within their head if they would be willing to give you a try within their head after the first encounter.. So if you dont attract her on that first shot.. its nearly impossible.. thus the friendzone

i agree with most of what anubis said, but im gonna disagree with women should explain why they rejected someone. "no." is a complete sentence. if you reject someone you shouldn't have to explain every reasoning behind it, you're not responsible for helping someone's growth as a person, they can do that on their own. Plus the reasoning could be personal, maybe they're gay and not out of the closet, maybe they're not interested in dating at the moment, etc, etc. and then theres the "you're too nice" excuse they use, which in my opinion is a great way of at least not upsetting someone that much. why do women not want to upset men? because hundreds of thousands of women get abused, verbally assaulted, raped, and/or killed for rejecting men every year. i know, it's not every man out there is going to be one of those few who do turn violent after rejection, but the risk is still pretty high. there's still a lot of men who immediately call women an ugly bitch or "you're not that pretty anyways" immediately after getting shut down. until women can stop worrying about walking home at night alone, if their skirts are too short that some asshole is going to yell at her from their car, and not leaving their drinks unattended at a party, then i think maybe women should start telling men exactly whats on their mind, but as long as theres that threat, it's not going to stop.