Lamby

Lamby @momoichi oh yeah?

Lamby @momoichi my my, you're quite The Joker. nyuk nyuk nyuk nyuk

godspell @godspell Clayface. If they follow the theme of finding identity in these characters it would have to be clayface. He'll probably pretend to be Bruce Wayne a character that is never seen. A recluse someone who doesn't care to be a part of the city. He's probably decided to be a symbol of hope instead of vengeance but finds being Bruce Wayne can help the city

Lamby @momoichi oh yeah you said that last time. what role do you think riddler will play?

godspell @godspell Probably miniscule. Probably escapes with joker as they form a league recruiting the new villains in gotham to kill the batman

godspell @godspell I think clayface is perfect to introduce powers into gotham. That gotham criminals have evolve in these trying times. Clayface has no identity of his own an actor who can become anyone but can never be himself

Lamby @momoichi i still think itll be a hannibal lector situation; you need my knowledge kinda deal. you think clayface fits the universe or just want him in a movie :P?

godspell @godspell I think he fits for the themes. Like he has to be Bruce Wayne. Bc the only reason Clayface can steal his identity is bc no one knows Bruce Wayne or how he acts. He can be a terrible person damaging the city with the Wayne fortune.

Lamby @momoichi sure but that films universe is rather grounded. no weird stuff like manbat. maaayybe you could say because venom exists clayface could, but idk. plus where does riddler come into this plot?

godspell @godspell Not exactly. The batman is more Gothic like than grounded in realism. Allowing for the supernatural to be commonplace like science experiments gone bad. The riddler will most likely have a come back when he gets more friends that are like him

godspell @godspell They'll probably take on the batman in different places after they take over the city

Lamby @momoichi is it though? the first villain is inarguably the most down to earth; the riddler. hes the most realistic villain and they purposefully protrayed him 100% different from his past iterations, a fucking domestic terrorist xD if they did clayface they would have to make him super realistic, and idk how theyd do that.

godspell @godspell I believe he could be a clay monster. Because in the Penguin show that's coming out. I feel like he'll need to get monsters that are beyond a criminal comprehension to win this gang war he's in

godspell @godspell The first villain riddler is a character may seem grounded. But hes a single character that drove the city into chaos with his sheer brilliance alone. Manipulating the people in his streams to join them. That is way beyond a normal criminal normally seen in Gotham. Because in all the movies of batman. The only people able to do that were the joker and Penguin in 90s movies

Lamby @momoichi oh fun fact, off topic kinda, but did you know the orphanage was actually wayne manor and the film actually takes place at wayne tower? anyways, reeves said he wanted to make batman into a noire film (he didnt, thats too actiony to be noire, it was just an action movie not a real mystery) and idk where that would fit? and like i said, that owl thing sounds more plausible to this as the whole secret society thing works better with a movie that more so wants to be a mystery film. i hope dearly it isn't, that whole gaba ghul shit ruined the dark knight for me (aahhh scarecrow is good enough a villain to stand on his own two feet damn it, and uuggghhhh cilian murphy we were ROBBED DAMN IT ROBBED I SAY RRROOOOBBBBEEEDD)

godspell @godspell No ras al ghul will most likely be in the new batman by James Gunn. Because he's the grandfather of Damian Wayne who is confirmed to be a part of the batman family. James Gunn has confirmed that Robert movies will continue in their own universe in DC

godspell @godspell Yes I know it was Wayne tower. It probably got turn into an orphanage due to Martha will and testament

godspell @godspell It was a crime noir. The whole filmography was meant to make you think trouble in China town I believe is the movie that he drew inspiration by. Because he had suspects key witnesses. But it's batman smack in the middle. It's a crime noire film that's why the setting so dark

Lamby @momoichi no, i just said i hated the idea of secret orgs in gotham, using gaba ghul as an example. feels like its shitting on why gotham is bad; the individuals, like shitty cogs making the whole clock shitty, not some group thats influencing all of the people, but general human nature. look at shitholes like detroit, they dont need no fuckin secret org to make the people be criminals kek. its like making thomas and martha die by assassination instead of by a petty crime. its a spit in the face of the point of their deaths; even the elites of the elites are vulnerable in a city like gotham. the great equalizer.

Lamby @momoichi it isnt a crime noire though, as there is no mystery to solve as it happens. you could never out things together as batman does. there is no foreshadowing, no clues, nothing. theres little riddlers you can solve, but that is it. just riddles that lead no where serious. hell, the riddler had to give himself up in the end to even get caught, batman wasnt even close. which i like as a riddler enjoyer, but whole shit what does that really mean for the film? that if he chose not to turn himself in and give the hint to batman, he would have won? batman would have been defeated? gotham would have drown? like if you take a step back thats a huge thing lol

Lamby @momoichi nah the wayne manor was given before they died. apparently theres a book about early riddler and bruce, before the comic. the riddler parts look good, but not worth buying it to read mostly about bruce wayne being a young douche bag. ill wait til someone uploads it and read it free.

godspell @godspell I know that's why were safe no Ghoul until whoever the new batman is. The crime society in the Robert Pattison I believe will not be in it. The director said its a good guess but neither of them were correct on court of owls or hush

Lamby @momoichi thank fucking FUCK. my fingers are crossed personally for mr.freeze still or an escaped joker or even better, scarecrow with cilian coming back to the role (but put lifts in his shoes, scarecrow is tall af)

godspell @godspell He's the riddler. It's the most entertaining thing about him. He can't resist on providing a clue to his crime. It's a compulsion disorder. You need to look at interviews with Matt reeves It's fascinating. But I do believe your right in someways. He needs to balance crime noire with action. Bc if you listen to his interviews even the car chase scene was inspired by a crime noire. Where the obsession is evident in the car. That's why the batman car so chaotic and a mess. Because his constant obsession is the driving point

godspell @godspell There's an amazing riddler comic on his character. He trains himself to resist leaving riddles so he's stealing money but somehow batman still on his tail. He was against his own will was leaving riddles out of nothing at the crime scenes

Lamby @momoichi true about the whole riddler cant help himself thing, but, again, the implication that if he didnt allow himself to get caught, he would have won. the implication that batman had technically failed in that movie. not even in a huborous lowering way, but in a 'huh. wait its good he went into that interrigation room or theyd all be fucking dead' convenient kinda way. yeah the action was too much for my taste, i mean batman causes a huge firey car pile up... how many did he kill, injure, just ruin their cars (and hope to hell they had great ass insurance or they are financially fucked) and there was no real mystery :/ like, i think im pretty good with keeping up with mysteries and shit in movies but i to this day even after surfing wikis and reading the entire riddler comic am not truly sure wtf the renewal problem was. like, thomas wayne created it, falcone drained it, use it to this day to filter dirty money? but why is it still up if no one got their money? how big was the fund to still be around to this day? its existed this long and noooo one found out but him? like no one got a penny out of that fund but no one thought to investigate? other such questions exist, but thats the biggest after reading the comics

godspell @godspell The way you interpret that is the obsession consuming the batman. How in the future it'll make him improve as a character. He'll most likely using the bat plane to avoid that to ever happening again. Avoid multiple causality more so now. Seek stealth instead of confrontation. Well you're investigating with the batman to figure out the riddler goal what the targets actually were. Because there were ways to figure it out from the movie. But keep in mind I'm sure the next movie will not be crime noir wise. Maybe

Lamby @momoichi other iterations have gone over his riddle leaving compulsion i believ. i love that about his character, like he could be near unstoppable if it wasnt for himself. like, hes such a lonely dude he needs people to interact with him by force, but also in a way that he chooses and one in which he always is the winner aaannddd is the smartest. its so childish its cute

godspell @godspell He wants attention though. He's an attention seeking character that's why his costume so bright. He once sent riddles to the police on his next crime. He ended up high jacking a TV studio so everyone could pay attention to him bc no one answered his riddles since the city was overrun

godspell @godspell He's also been seen sticking people up if they can't answer his riddle he steals their money. If they win he gives them money. He can't help himself. Batman has stated the Penguin and riddler could outsmart him. But the problem is their modus operandi keeps them from winning

Lamby @momoichi will it though? lemme preface, i looooooooooooooooove the riddler. i love all the batman villains, who doesnt? but i cant stand batman, never have never will, and this iteration is especially bad. hes the typical sad brooding dude that still laments his parents death despite being IN HIS LATE 20'S MOVE ON and is totally infalable and somehow defeated two huge super villains in his FIRST YEAR OF SUPERING. HIS FIRST YEAR. TWO. TWO. which also implies the riddler was strongest than either? and how does he solve the issue? not with his mind, IN A FUCKING NOIRE MYSTERY MOVIE BUT WITH HIS FUCKING STRENGTH. IN A MYSTERY. HIS STRENGTH, NOT MIND, SOLVED THE DAY. like holy shit. batmn is that movie is the spoiled rich guy riddler pegs him as. he dragged raced as a young dude (so laws for thee but not for me), was a dick to alfred (YOUR NOT MY REAL DAD holy shit i cant believe that was in the fucking movie!) and told a sad orphan that looked up to him that hes a fucking loser. hes soooo baaaaddd. like the scene was so egregious. wasnt a 'oh god hes right we are alike- no! we cant be!' it was just him shouting out of no where at a guy who just said when he was a kid rats nibbled his hands and feet. was sooo baaad i laughed xD laughed so loud and hard. the movie was so bad its good tier til it gets boring around the end

Lamby @momoichi oh, but penguin was good too. really liked his actor, even if he wasnt short. hope hes in the next one

godspell @godspell He didn't use his strength. The action was honestly secondary. It was more dialogue and systematic. He's in his twenties after watching parents get murdered. Honestly a man would kill himself if he didn't have Alfred to be his adoptive father which is the only way that he avoided the orphanage thus the thoughts of killing himself

godspell @godspell The 3rd act of the movie devolved into a super hero movie unfortunately. Is the only way I'd give it to you on the crime noire part. I feel like there was another way to tackle it. Keep in mind Matt reeves inspiration from batman was Kurt Cobain music. Even riddler was inspired by Kurt Cobain album bc there's a secret song in the album. So he took a rock star personality and applied it to Bruce Wayne character in batman

godspell @godspell Keep in mind as well batman does treat his villains as humans later on in his career and continues to seek treatment for all of them. Just they just continue to refuse the help they need. Even in jail when he visits them he calls them by their real names. Never their villain names to humanize them. He provides money to scholarships to improving the city to charities. Giving poor kids a chance at bettering their lives. Just gotham a hollow broken city with a cesspool for chaos and madness

Lamby @momoichi duuuuuude. it was all body! he was fighting in the end! a huge ass action scene! only thanks to the fact that riddler gave him the answer! and riddler is more put together than bruce. you know why? he didnt have the privilege of brooding. and its implied his parents died when he was young as well. riddler has a steady job, while bruce is off doing whatever he wants, including breaking the law in dangerous ways and not worrying about working his company which employs a shit ton of people i guess. and even you have to admit that defeating the joker and fucking bane in a single year when you just started is fucking ridiculous. like, no fucking way that happened. bruce wayne sucks as a hero becase hes just beaitng up poor people. you ever watch dorkly videos? ever take on batman is sooo truuueee. hes a rich dude beating up poor people while doing little to actually work on the root of the issue, and refuses to kill these horrible people and lettin them escape and kill more people. he has blood on his hands, even person they kill he's killed. the best batman would be an oldboy take of a dude that takes as much as he gives and realizes that fuck, vengeance aint what you think it is and changes his world view at the end once putting his first big super villain in prison. now, one good element in the comics/dark knight was him bolstering the politician that became two face, that was real systemic change in the making. bruce wayne will always be able to do more than batman, and yet he doesnt do enough. also hes been embezzling from his publicly owned company, so hes also a criminal but white collar crimes are not crimes apparently

godspell @godspell No I watched some of their videos. It basically proves no one reads shit or does research. But who can blame them theirs too much history. He has blood on his hands of course he does. But if he kills his villains he'll legit keep on killing. He'll get to the point where's he's killing everyone even the cops to the political figures. It's been shown over and over again. That batman who kills becomes a dictator. Even when he gets old he makes gotham a I forgot the word. Militarized city with bat robots keeping everyone in line

godspell @godspell I've already mentioned he dedicates his time to the city multiple times. There's even an entire document to all he's done as Bruce Wayne. He runs the company through lucis fox a genius that works with him on all projects for the company while pretending to to be a playboy to avoid suspicion

godspell @godspell Riddler was unhinged in the beginning until be saw the batman making him realize how people could see him. We already saw that in Robert Pattison discovering vengeance isn't the answer from an outside perspective that's why I believe his batman already better than any. The second movie will plunge him into using the Bruce Wayne persona to help his city and get to rebuilding like he does in comics

Lamby @momoichi oh damn, you dont like dorklys vids? i mean his criticisms are pretty on point, like why would the waynes ever walk down a place called crime alley XP!?

Lamby @momoichi ddaaammnn your more into robert pattersons batman than bales???

godspell @godspell Yeah even bale said his wasn't perfect. And I agree. He was put together to well when he came back from training. Crime alley was never called crime alley 20-30 years after the first origin of batman. It used to be called park row

godspell @godspell Crime alley was never called crime alley until after the Wayne's were murdered boom facts

Lamby @momoichi i thought bale was better. robert patterson CAN emote, but the direction he was given must have been shit. i prefer a more normal dude, not a grown brooding man. and that batman did try and make systemic changes, not just beating up the poor kek

Lamby @momoichi mhm, mhm, i see. well, ill ask again why they were in that alley alone? in the upper side, the side known as the most dangerous? thomas wayne was extremely philanthropistic, so he knew very well the state of the city, and willingly took his wife and small child into an alley? in the worst part of the city? play or no play, even normies know to stay on the sidewalk under the light of the street lamps

Lamby @momoichi PLUS you know alred was in the car ready to pick them up. why take that route, your telling me the theatre doesnt have doors opening straight to the street?

godspell @godspell That's how everyone depicts crime alley now instead of it being a neighborhood. You can imagine that's when gotham went even lower. Like a bunch of rot coming from the site they died. Park row became rundown because no one wants to touch the community that gun down the top couple

godspell @godspell Alfred was never created yet. He came to the Wayne's once his father passed away. And he took on the duties that his father left behind raising the boy after the incident or during the incident. Sometimes when he was a grown man is when he arrived it just depends

Lamby @momoichi no, in most iterations he was there pre their death. and even if we say 'sure, alfred wasnt there', they had a driver. if you wanna say canonically no they didnt, at LEAST they had a car. and the theatre doesnt have vale? or a parking spot for the richest man in gotham? no way. there is no making thomas waynes choice of going down that alley a logical/reasonable/likely reason.

godspell @godspell I like the story where alfred has to give up his dreams to be a butler for Bruce Wayne because his father made him promise to do so. And he mostly gets into the business when batman was close to death. That his fight isn't over with from secret service or war

godspell @godspell I also posted what crime alley looks like

Lamby @momoichi why give up his dreams to be a butler? why not just live his life and take care of bruce? like what thomas was doing, juggle both, but why be his butler? yeah alfred being some MI16 dude from england is really weird lore, like i get it explains why he can train bruce and i prefer it to bruce being trained by gaba ghul, but like, what are the odds? isnt it better if bruce trained himself, like got forced by fire by fist fights in the city as well as reading books and shit on martial arts?

godspell @godspell He joined the army without his father permission to serve. And became the queen soldier. After that he went into the theater arts that's why he can pretend to be Bruce Wayne on the phone or act for the guests he's away. He ignored his family legacy on serving the Wayne's until his father deathbed and he made him promised to keep up the family legacy so he did. Alfred the last pennyworth. He's already dead. Killed by bane. But left a billion dollar fortune to Nightwing

Lamby @momoichi ok but like. why the butler? why be the butler? thomas couldnt make him a partner in the business? couldnt have given him majority shares in the company if its public in the main lore? isnt that kinda dehumanizing after spending your whole life as your own person to be relegated to a servant position?

godspell @godspell That's where the billions came into affect. The pennyworths had shares in the Wayne business. The Wayne's always treated the pennyworths like family. But they never stop serving them

Lamby @momoichi he had shares? or he was a majority shareholder? cause to just give him a few shares is kinda shitty when your asking him to give up his entire life for your snot nose brat. but, why would you let your whole family be subservient to another? are brits just born to cuck out to another family kek?

godspell @godspell If the shares were worth billions to amass a fortune then I'd say it was a lot.

godspell @godspell But also the penny worths have been around as long as the Wayne's so I wouldn't be surprised they had it in thr beginning

Lamby @momoichi well my issue isnt money, but power. the waynes were majority shareholders, surely those shares went to alfred and then bruce when he came of age. but why would the pennyworths wanna, as a family, serve the waynes xD? why do they want to xD? are they not their own people with wants and goals? if they had their own money and power, why would they not use it for themselves?

godspell @godspell I'm not sure I dont remember if the orginal pennyworth was saved by Wayne ancestors. But I still love it. The relationship and sass is great. I miss Alfred

godspell @godspell He didn't deserve having his neck snapped by Bane. But it did make nightwing run for mayor

Lamby @momoichi even if they were, that does mean a life death for generations lol. its kool you like the dynamic though. if hes dead in the main canon who took over his position?