debate

Lamby I agree honestly I don't buy into veganism but watching the chicken video was unsettling "The years of selective breedin their muscles grow too rapidly" That being said, this select breed of chicken was born to die. There would be no fixing this beyond even more breeding and years more of reintroducing them to the wild Or a mass chicken slaughter the likes that would wipe out the species as a whole in some benevolent mercy killing

this is why i like you oya your honest i wish people could just admit they hypocrits. I'm a hypocrite because I'm not vegan, I'm vegetarian. its so easy to admit but people want their cake and eat it too,.

Lamby, I just wanted to ask: do you believe that animals are equal to humans in terms of basic rights? And if you do, may I ask why? If you don't, can you also tell me why.

ty for the questions! usually im the one doing the questioning >w>/ i hold humans above animals, but that is because we have the highest level of sentience. we arguably have the most subjective life experience. animals are second in that line, depending on species. then insects. then plants. and that's how I conduct my moral consideration. now ill admit I am bias to humans, I would still protect a mentally stunted person above an animal that is their senient equal or greater, but I believe we need to in order for societies to function. we need to hold humans higher no matter what because of empathy. i just don't want anything that can suffer to suffer needlessly. and I have not heard a convincing argument that meat is necessary. in short, as I was kinda all over the place, sorry xD, yes, on the grounds of sentience.

I see. I also wanted to ask you: are you fine with the lifestyle choice that meat-lovers take if the animals are slaughtered in a way that is least painful?

no, because its still ending the life of something that wanted to live needlessly. i respect that indigenous people need to hunt to live as meat is so calorically dense, but that simply isn't the case for the majority of people. they have a choice.

May I ask if this argument applies to animals killing animals? More specifically: omnivores —> any animal I used omnivores in this because humans are omnivores as well, so an omnivore animal substitutes humans, in my example. Does it apply to omnivores too, or does this apply to humans only? Omnivores eat what is naturally available to them at that time — meat or plants. So if they choose to eat the meat over the plants, when they have a choice, does this make it wrong?

no, because animals have no judge of right and wrong like humans do. they have no logical alternative. humans do. we don't hold humans to the standards of animals any other time, why with food?

@momoichi I read the full article you sent me. That is not a research article, but a paper publication and it does provide a lot of benefits of a plant based diet, I won't argue against that article. But it in no way support or show that a vegan diet is superior to omnivorous diet. The increased association the study talked of were regarding Diabetes, Blood pressure, Obesity, and Cardiovascular diseases, which are already highly associated with fast food products. And, since it is not a research article, it does not have control studies, thus does not distinguish between fast food nonveg eaters and healthy non-veg eaters. Any diet would have health benefits compared to fast foods, and most fast food lovers are non-veg eaters, so a control study is required to show causation specifically between non-veg and the health problems the study talked of. The conclusion it gave regarding plant-based diet is something I agree with, "plant based diets whcih are well planned and disciplined and checked with a dietician can be a healthy diet". Indeed a well planned and disciplined plant based diet is very healthy, but such a diet requires a variety of plants and fruits, and even a dietician to check with you, not everyone can afford it. It's a lot easier and affordable to put in a meat or egg, and get a balanced diet without much discipline. In short that article explains how to plan and create a well balanced plant based diet, nothing more. I never said that you cannot manage to have a healthy life with plant based diet alone, but it's a lot more difficult to do that without supplements or non veg added in the diet, which is where omnivorous diet truly shines. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6367879/ Here I would like to link a study that studied all peer-reviewed research papers and compiled data comparing the Iron deficiency anemia, B12 deficiency, and micronutried deficiencies, which are our major concerns regarding vegetarians at the moment. And they show a clear benefit to having an omnivorous balanced diet ^^