debate

my view on life and sentience are theyr a curse you don't ask to be alive, and when its thrusted onto you, your terrified to lose it that's extremely cruel imo. yes we have lots of fun and happiness, but we also have a lot of heartbreak and pain. morally, we never hold pleasure above pain, so why is life any different? that's also why i care more about the well being of the mother than i do the fetus because the fetus doesn't know what life is, it doesn't want to live no more then a plant does conversely, the mother does want to live, she does have real thoughts and feelings, she has an actual quality of life, where as the fetus does not. so i hold her well being above the potential well being of a fetus like i said, the fetus wants to be alive as much as a plant does. a gold fish has more of a subjective experience then a fetus does, so why should i hold a creature that cant even experience well being above that of a sentient person that can? it makes no sense in my mind you probably think im the cruel one, but from my perspective that's you. you give 0 thought or consideration to the struggle that a mother has to go through, and as a man, you will never really understand it. women get abortions whether its legal or not, which just stresses the desperation that these women face.

@solid_snake95 so you would accept the colon cancer and not seek medical treatment? because you arent reaping what you sowed if you get treatment. you have to keep the stupid prize you won from the stupid game you played, right? so you eat that burger and know that if you get colon cancer that's your own fault and your own responsibility to bare it?

been awhile, so looking to debate veganism on the grounds of ethics just tell me what trait or set of traits an animal has that a human lacks which allows you to forgo their moral consideration?

As long as animals eat other animals the grounds of ethics is null. Humans are omnivores. Deer mostly eat plants but if they cannot find food they will eat a ground nesting bird if they come across one. Veganism is basically trying to make yourself feel guilty for an animal you personally didnt have to kill for food. If society were to collapse those same vegans would turn cannibals if the moment presented itself.

@hell_hound7 Do you hold your morals to that of animals? Do you not consider yourself above them morally? Deer and most herbivores are naturally opportunistic omnivores when they are short on calories because meat is so calorically dense. The same way that indigenous peoples need to hunt to survive because they cant farm for alternatives or go to the grocery store as we can. How are these reasons why you can pay someone to torture and kill farm animals? Do you consider yourself a cows prey?

Yes lamby because some farmer somewhere raises these animals to peak health to then torture them and kill them to sell them off. People tlaking about poor living conditions and all this also fail to realize. If they are living in filth and in crowded situations being starved and whatever else vegans like to claim. Then these animals get sick and/or die. If they get sick you cant just sell them as food. Meaning you aren't making a profit, meaning eventually you wont be a farmer anymore. I do not consider myself morally anything. Because a mountain lion doesnt care if im human or not theybwill just eat me. I have that same mindset, i dont care if at one point this cow was alive i will eat it. Inb4 you say why wont i eat a human its because just like many animals in the animal kingdom i dont eat my own kind. Generally most animals arent cannibals ants are a great example they just discard their dead and keep it moving.

This is how these poor animals get tortured, kept cooped up so long so the grass can grow and they graze for months. The inhumane actions of evil humans. Tortured. https://youtu.be/jQQTmuOEPLU

@hell_hound7 Do you know what happens inside a slaughterhouse? These animals have never been outside the farm and are loaded into these trucks and sent down the freeway, they become so terrified that pigs will eat each other's tails and chickens will cling to the sides so tightly the slaughterhouse workers have to rip them from it, oftentimes ripping off legs. I have video sources to all of these. (this is talking about actual farms, when 95% of the meat you eat is from factory farms, not the video you linked, which have much worse conditions then just the slaughterhouse) This isn't even getting into the slaughterhouse itself and the mental torture that accosts both slaughterhouse workers and animals. You can't compare yourself to the behavior of animals to justify eating them. Animals also rape each other, but you would never rape an animal and use that justification. Why is one considered cruelty and the other is considered moral?

Bruh how can i not use animals eatign each other as justification. So you say these animals are sentient enough to understand what is going on and are mentally scarred and whatever. They are so smart they understand everything. But then what makese them different than me? We both eat to survive, we both mate, we both build nests, we both do things to entertain ourselves. These animals do not grow up in slaughter houses. They grow up on farms, they live long lives. they head to the slaughter house.