debate

You guys ever read about the abortion and crime link? When abortion is illegal crime typically goes up. Mostly cause kids could grow up on broken homes or people have financial troubles from unwanted pregnancies.

@solid_snake95 kk, all i wanted to know :P was interesting using this and the other hypothetical personally id say no, the courts should never be allowed to infringe directly onto someones bodily autonomy like that, but different strokes for different folks, ty for the debate :P and as for the emotional side of things, i feel emotional for the mother, the idea that shes forced to sustain a fetus inside of her for 9 months, risk death, risk losing her job, and then she also might have to continue taking care of it for 18 years minimum? that's horrible. i hope the well being of the sentient human over the well being of a non sentient fetus, which is why abortion before 6th months should be illegal, because by then the baby is conscious and there for has some semblance of sentience imo its no different from a family member pulling the plug on someone in a vegetative state that may or may not wake up

yeah ghost makes a good point, women get abortions regardless of whether its legal or not, which should underline the desperation they feel this isn't something they do on a whim, its a gut wrenching decision

It's a legit theory. Look it up sometime. I found out about it reading up on the lead and crime link. Which is another fascinating subject. The basic theory is lead in our environment contributes to crime by eroding the brains empathy capacity.

oh i misread what you said yeah i brought that up about incarceration going down as abortions go up

from a pragmatic standpoint it also saves money, because less prisoners means less tax money goes to feeding and housing those prisoners, but that's not a legal or moral argument

@momoichi No. The courts have the ability to lock me up and throw away the key for doing something of this nature. In prison/jail I can't do anything that I want to do, I can't even take a shit without somebody looking or getting the approval of a cell mate. As far as I'm concerned, what is the difference? My autonomy is taken either way. But my stance on it is based more on the traditional mindset as far as importance of life and duties. From least importance to most as far as the preservation of life it goes man, woman, child, baby, the unborn. If it means I have to die in order to preserve the next generation, then so it shall be. Granted I'd rather live, but should the situation call for it I will cast myself willingly into the jaws of death. However most situations are where life does not have to be expended and I do not approve.

@dyadka_yar locking someone up isnt stepping on their autonomy, its just confinement. bodily autonomy is when your body itself is being infringed on, like when a court says you have to incubate and give birth to a baby sex is for recreation more then it is for procreation, there is only a 20% chance that you can get pregnant (WITHOUT a condom, with a condom its less then 2%), so i reject the idea that these women consented to getting pregnant and the "victim" in this circumstance is literally a bundle of cells that isn't sentient, that doesn't even want anything let alone wanting to live. its more akin to a plant than it is to even an animal at this point, so why do i put this beings well being above a living, breathing human that could be demonstrably harmed if they dont get an abortion? and what is their crime to bare this punishment? having recreational sex? i reject all of this

@momoichi The only difference between one and the other are technicalities. Both situations suck, but you screw up you pay the price. Using the "sex is for recreation" doesn't cut it for me. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. You know the risks and you deal with the consequences. I know the consequences for getting under the bar and lifting. I've done it 100s of times and yet the risk of death or severe bodily injury is there, though highly unlikely something like that will happen I still do it because I am willing to pay that price. I do not respect somebody who knows the risks, does it willingly and then complains when worst case scenario happens. To address the bundle of cells, by using a long string of philosophies and concepts I can reduce anybody to a bundle of cells that only has the illusion of sentience or importance. I could easily say that people are nothing more than interactions of hormones and organic matter that people think is thought. Problem with using this method is that it only provides justification for doing something and removes any sort of accountability and is sociopathic in nature. By stating that is is a bundle of cells and not something human and alive is reducing it's value by to justify one's own personal wants. Now if we want to get into medically necessary procedures then I can concede here. It isn't an easy decision to terminate baby for reasons of dying or horrible defect of the baby in question. The good news is that these cases are generally rare and not overly many people have to make that decision. I can sympathize with that. I can't sympathize with a recreational event gone wrong.