debate

lol i like nick right now, he told conservatives not to vote in the Georgia election cause its rigged, that's fucking hilarious when he shits on the republicans hes doing gods work (love when it hurts itself in confusion) so ok, by your definition isn't that what "make America great again" means? restore it to when it was good? how exactly was America built on liberalism and where does that show in our history? the fact that there is an active coup attempt by his cult in my opinion shows that his fascist tactics worked (with them at least) he used "illegal immigrants" and then "antifa" like hitler used the jews he said the media was all lying and you cant trust them, only trust him he said his political rivals were all criminals when he loses the election he says that it was stolen from him with 0 proof he even used actual fascist tactics that are illegal in America when he black bagged protesters using unmarked federal agents i know fascist and nazi are thrown around a lot and I'm critical of that myself because it waters down things we should actually worry about, and I'm not saying hes nessecarily a fascist, but he absolutely utilizes fascist tendencies to build a cult around himself

Nick is a bit of a Trad, that's why he bashes on the GOP. He knows the GOP is not comprised of Traditionalists. The United States' only link to a pre-modern Traditional Society was when it was British property. When you guys declared your own independence, the American constitution had (at least de jure) the values of equality, freedom of speech and other things brought by the Enlightenment, French Revolution and Liberalism. The US definitely never was a Traditional Society. "Make America Great Again" is his proposal to restore the US to its former uncontested geopolitical status, not to a former "culturally rich" society. And how he proposes that? By proposing putting American interests above all else. This is actually, in paper, Nationalism, which isn't a synonym of Fascism. (It is a PART, though) His actions you quoted are most befitting of a narcissistic populist with some authoritarian tendencies at best. No matter where, a populist will always capitalize on a cult of personality to maintain their support, because that's all they have. That's why you see some of the worst sort of people voicing their support for him. Fascists, white supremacists, and etc. They may not be the same as a whole, but in some aspects, populism is needed for their main goals, as Fascists and White Supremacists also gain prominence in chaos. About illegal immigrants, to be frank: I cannot say much about the topic, as I never bothered too much for searching info about 'em. But when I do, I might even write some of my biased crap about it. Bottom line: Any populist does the same kind of shit he did when it comes to his supporters. Be they from right, left, center and etc. Trump just learned to do it just right.

nick is a full blown white nationalist nazi i disagree that just because we founded it on freedoms and equality that makes it liberal, because we were absolutely not liberal in any sense of the word, even when compared to England at the time. we need to practice what we preach for it to mean anything, otherwise its all meaningless lip service to make ourselves feel good. and while even England progressed, we stayed the same. i disagree that it has to be culture that motivates the fascist revolt. hitler used the fact that Germany was suffering globally as well as a reason to "go back when we were strong'. culture is an after thought of that. nationalism isn't nessecarily a symptom of fascist, you can have fascism with it yeah, but it absolutely is a common and useful tool for implementing fascism. again, look at nazi Germany. you didn't address my other points, though everything i listed in my previous statement are absolutely tools of fascist leaders and he has used them to a T this isn't just nationalism or populism. this is a man that uses fascist tactics to brainwash his base into committing the acts they did today and have been doing since he was inaugurated.

The point is that the US was never a Traditionalist society. Besides, the US was the world's first Liberal country in the very century of the French and Haitian revolutions. Thus, it makes no sense to be a Fascist in the USA. And Mussolini and Hitler's "go back when we were strong" also translated to "go back when we were beautiful and virtuous (via tradition)". Global influence was a catalyst to their insurrection as it was for Trump's election. A valid parallel, but it ends there. I addressed your other points by saying all of them are in common for Populist leaders. They will blame people that oppose them, they will want their mob to only believe him and will gaslight the world so that is attained. Populists from all 3 political theories do this (Liberalism, Socialism and Fascism). Besides Mussolini and Hitler and possibly Dump... what other leaders were Fascist? Franco and Salazar? Yeah, they were indeed Populists and Authoritarian for the sake of a Catholic country, but they were Traditional Conservatives at best. Portugal and Spain stopped in time, they didn't return. Putin? He is only autocratic. You could say Perón, but to be frank, I don't know much of that dirty Argentinian caudillo.

Perhaps the fraction of Haiti under Pétion's half was something near of a country created under the ideals of Liberal Democracy, unlike Henri Cristophe, who preferred absolute rule.

how do you define traditionalist, because it was pretty damn conservative even until the 21century i compare us to England, who progressed way faster societally than we did, even to modern day we are socially behind them women couldn't even have bank accounts until the late 70s I'm just not seeing how we were in any way a progressive society, and I'm not comparing us now to us then, I'm comparing us to England, which progressed societally much faster then we did. id say america has always been hella traditionalist. ok so are you denying that everything i listed previously are things fascists do?

That's the key. Conservatives are opposed to changes that affect the country's founding values, while a Traditionalist openly imposes the country's Tradition and shuns any attempt to deviate from it. It is completely illogical for a Brazilian Conservative to pass a law to try and ban racemixing, for example. As our country was founded and brought up by mixed people. Taking Salazar for example, he was a Traditionalist in the sense that he endorsed and imposed Catholicism in Portugal, and persecuted Liberals, Socialists and Fascists alike. Is he a Fascist? No, a Traditionalist Conservative, and very authoritarian at that. As it was with Salazar and Franco, they denied the 3 main political theories and try something of their own. Ruthless capitalism itself is Liberalism. Liberalism isn't a one-liner of humane, mixed economy and progressiveness. Such that Conservatives draw the line in certain subjects, such as gay marriage, freedom of speech, free market and such. That doesn't make them any less Liberal. Populism is part of Fascism, yes. Never denied so. But it isn't enough to call someone Fascist, as it is a tool used by Liberals, Socialists and independents alike.

thats america to a T though. we had slaves when other countries had already deemed that inhumane. we made gay sex illegal while other countries had already legalized gay marriage. race mixing was illegal in America until, what, the 60s? you wanna talk traditionalism, the pledge of allegiance still includes god, same with our money we were never a liberal country let me ask what characteristics he would need to show to be considered fascist leaning?