(Female responses preferred) Guy becoming friends to get in a relationship?

@xypho - Complicated indeed but interesting to marvel at and study it's intrigues. @InfernalMonsoon - I was not intending to criticize but after so many years of hearing the same thing from youth as I heard/thought as one it stirs something inside I suppose. Do not try to be the bad boy but observe them as they hold some of the keys to success in life, not just dating. Some girls seem to have a hobby of trying to change men and like the challenge of fixing (taming) the bad boy because he usually has better odds in winning. I think of it as their counterpoint to some men's 'trophy wives'. You seem to have an understanding of the concept of not being outcome dependent. It is bad to be focused on the positive outcome because you invest emotional value like gambling your heart in a casino. When you lose it multiplies the damage to your ego and self-esteem needlessly. It is also bad to invest in the negative outcome as you are mentally per-disposing yourself to failure and that may subconsciously cause you to say and/or do things to insure that negative outcome without realizing it; even something as subtle as body language. Like master Yoda said 'do not try...do or do not.' If you must depend on anything make it finding out the answer to the question whatever it may be as soon as feasible. If you are not overly invested up front in any answer you will have an easier time handling negative outcomes and in fact may succeed more often. It shows confidence and competence when you handle everything like it's cool and you are composed inside and outside without having to fake it because mentally you have nothing to lose. I had friendships that turned into relationships but there was never usually romantic interest up front on either part, we just became more intimate unexpectedly as time went on. It can happen and is fine IMHO but if you start in with someone knowing you really want more than you asked for, unless mutual, can be taken poorly. Not every person someone is attracted to is meant for them nor should they pursue them all frivolously. Usually a girl I am romantically attracted to I chat or hangout with only long enough to determine if she is single and interesting which takes very little time; literally minutes to hours. Very quickly I'm either asking her for a date declaring I want to get to know her better and sense an attraction or thanking her for the fun chat and casually going back to us being smiling faces in the crowd. If she offers only friendship and is someone cool around my circle of friends I might accept depending on the situation. One of the girls that shot me down for trying to use the friend path on(escape from FZ) had a very clever metaphor to scold me: "Were you trying to test drive me as a GF?" Try before you buy is a concept best not used on people sometimes. Getting to know them is the adventure because you learn things about yourself as you learn about them and how you relate to them or not. You have to have those things to talk about and explore together to enjoy and grow the relationship (bonding) or you get bored no matter how good the sex is because that gets boring too. It is no fun if you know too much up front...no risk no reward. I use the nice guy/bad boy tokens as they are widely known like points on a scale. I like to think of the bad boy as one with out of control masculinity. He has the tools and/or the genetics and the mind to understand his desires only enough to feed them endlessly as he never finds what he wants because he does not look inside himself. He blindly obeys his biological imperative to reproduce at will and is well equipped to succeed but in little else if he does not mature. The 'nice guy' who is not nice as the OPs mentions usually has little to no masculinity. Biologically he is more likely to be under control of his female hormones (all humans have both) being trapped in a depressed emotional state lacking confidence and self value which is of course unattractive. He may also be tormented by his biological imperative to reproduce unable to as-is. Men get hit the hardest with this powerful instinct at puberty and it fades as they age almost directly opposite to women. He may take desperate measures to satisfy this urge that dominates the back of his mind every waking hour and even in his dreams there is no escape. Without guidance he may do anything to get it even if it is dishonest, immoral, or even inhumane. IMHO a true good man lies somewhere in the middle of these two. He is masculine as man should be but he is in complete control of it and cognizant of the forces at play that will try to distract him and swats them away like flies. He holds tight reigns on his emotions but knows when and how to ease up on that grip regulating their ebb and flow. bah you kids will be the death of my keyboard lol

I don't know about other guys, but I don't. I become friend with people to talk about interesting topics we have in comment and have fun. Also the question should not be for females only considering it's about males and how we think.

@DarkSchneider - That's an interesting outlook, I'll keep this post short because I don't want to torture you or your keyboard further :D I've always been reading about this kind of thing over the years because the whole "nice guy" and bad boy topic has always fascinated me, I've always wanted to understand the psychology behind the whole thing, I guess because I'm neither of those that my past relationships back in secondary school have been much different compared to most other people. But I found the message seemed to always have been to straddle between the two, to be a good guy so to speak, just like you said and honestly I've only ever heard about this kind of thing from other people around my age but never from people much older than me (I didn't even ask my dad on this subject for some unknown reason), I think I just needed a perspective from someone with more life experience to really get an in-depth grasp behind this whole thing. I guess it really is as simple as just being the best I can be and changing my modus operandi to that of the good guy - I'm willing to take that advice and see how things go from there :D Thanks!

With my latest relationship, I wanted someone who could also be my friend. We knew each other for years and years after that we grew close to becoming best friends then we started dating. The sticky thing with this and this could just be my bad luck, but every guy who has become a friend just to "get me" when I'm single has turned out to be the most fake of people. Make sure to be yourself, completely. If the other person seriously likes you, great! If they don't, then you could be happier with someone else and not waste your time pretending to be someone else. Also, there is no reason to hurt others in such a way. I'm not sure if anyone has had this happen.

I think its lame, guys should be friends to be friends but hey if attraction happens it happens. If you aren't interested the guy should be a piece of dirt bag and be a douche either. A true friend never leaves a friend out if they got rejected. Ive been rejected before, but my intentions were just friends at first but somethings guys and girls get attached, when I heard they were not interested I was still their friend. That's what real friends do, and eventually that feeling I had just went away and it was friendship all the way. I also agree with Monja, sometimes being friends first causes a spark on both ends and it makes a relationship kindle.

I think its the best way to start a relation, to try to become friends first and than closer ... maybe. These days people just jump in to things only later on to regret it, this makes to me more sense. Also you have to consider his feelings he probably is shy and is trying to take things slow.

@Origami You also have to consider how it feels to the person who is sought after.. It's weird to suddenly hear that your friend wants "something more" especially if you weren't interested in any romantic.. ANYTHING with the person.. No matter what she or he feels. Relationships are a two way street. You may be shy, but that still isn't a good reason to get into a friendship and try to make it more than platonic. Again, it's better to have your expectations known from the start rather pull a surprise on someone. If feelings spark, they spark, which is great. but Just because there is a spark, doesn't mean there will be fire. Don't go to a casino and think you're going to get the jackpot just because you're there. Don't become a friend and expect to get a date with a person just because you are their friend. Less people would even want to be your friend if you think that way. also >Take things slow Take what slow?? Becoming someone's friend isn't taking it slow.... Taking it slow would be both parties agreeing about feelings but rather than jumping into full hearted commitment, they take their time with it and gradually build up to it. Becoming a friend isn't that... ----------------- It's better to know them before liking them. Not liking them before knowing them. Friends should seen as friends, Not as potential dates. If you like them, That's fine, nothing wrong. Better to just say it than try to seek out a relationship because you do. Plus you'd get a more subtle response and open up a possibility.

@Origami You also have to consider how it feels to the person who is sought after.. It's weird to suddenly hear that your friend wants "something more" especially if you weren't interested in any romantic.. ANYTHING with the person.. No matter what she or he feels. Relationships are a two way street. You may be shy, but that still isn't a good reason to get into a friendship and try to make it more than platonic. Again, it's better to have your expectations known from the start rather pull a surprise on someone. If feelings spark, they spark, which is great. but Just because there is a spark, doesn't mean there will be fire. Don't go to a casino and think you're going to get the jackpot just because you're there. Don't become a friend and expect to get a date with a person just because you are their friend. Less people would even want to be your friend if you think that way. also >Take things slow Take what slow?? Becoming someone's friend isn't taking it slow.... Taking it slow would be both parties agreeing about feelings but rather than jumping into full hearted commitment, they take their time with it and gradually build up to it. Becoming a friend isn't that... ----------------- It's better to know them before liking them. Not liking them before knowing them. Friends should seen as friends, Not as potential dates. If you like them, That's fine, nothing wrong. Better to just say it than try to seek out a relationship because you do. Plus you'd get a more subtle response and open up a possibility.

I agree, from my past problems I use to do some silly stuff like this, I am 23 now and also know the responsibility of doing such things, taken in consideration the fact of people doing this is pretty awful IMO, if you truly like that said person give it time, don't rush it and feel like shiz afterwards....