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ATTN: MaiOtaku

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daggerfella
<3

It seems to me, the closer and closer you get to a "Planned Economy" the more and more power you give to people that can abuse it....

and the more and more people see themselves as a collective identity, the more and more people can be tricked into giving the government more and more power to exploit them...

Jan 11, 18 at 1:51pm
jtibbs

You're right I am an individual with individual rights. I'm not just assigned a number at birth. Oh wait. I am, and it's literally how the government and banks refer to me.

And the US has never used manipulative tactics to herd people. Oh wait...it has

Jan 11, 18 at 1:51pm
daggerfella
<3

well why give the government power to manipulate you or plan the economy?

yeah you are given a number (social security) a socialist idea, and a bank number (because its easier to index you by a number than by a name they can confuse YOU with others as...) im not saying at all the Oligarchy / Plutocracy that we have ISNT bad but its not what a pure free market is. you people confuse a oligarchy with the free market, all different economic models under capitalism. your complaints about capitalism are the same as the complaints of any planned market system, yet you want more and more government that the government can use to abuse and manipulate you with. funny huh?

you are litterally giving a good argument for the Free Market @Midas

Jan 11, 18 at 1:53pm
daggerfella
<3

i mean we have parties that manipulate people under identities all the time

we have the democrats where you serve the needs of the party and people address issues of specific identities by offering incentives to vote and make a larger and larger government role within our lives that is easily manipulable to get people in power who have selfish interests at heart and dont need to compete with any other group than the ones they speak solely to.

you have firebrand republicans that unite people under old world values and fundemental christian interpretation of society and its roles. which can be used to get people voted into power who have no clue what they are doing, and dont need to compete with any other group than the ones that they speak to.

this is one of the biggest reasons why our founding fathers and many of the first 10 presidents didnt like a 2 party system and wanted to abolish Partisanship entirely.

people dont have to compete for votes or ideas if they just cater to the needs or desires of other people.
offering money, christianity, jobs, protected class rights, equity, welfare... etc they literally do not have to compete, its a popularity contest for those who want the system that is designed to cater to them by either party. we no longer have actual meaningful debates or discussions on policy anymore, just shilling to the majority they speak to and demonizing the collective groups they dont speak to. people call it virue signaling these days.

Collectivism and planned markets do not work, every push to move a government more towards it has just led to more people being exploited and manipulated. every time the government works to develop industry (US STEEL, COAL, OIL...etc) its led to supporting industries. rather than leaving the industries to invest in themselves and develop their own model, they rely on the government to create exploitable systems.

every single to hate a planned economy, is a reason for a free market model.

people these days are opposed to a free market system because they are used to businesses having the ability to exploit people, resources and loopholes that the government has allowed through regulation of the free market. this has lead to monopolies on the EPIPEN, Cancer treatment, HIV Treatment (which the first treatment was TOXIC and legal thanks to the FDA not allowing alternatives, thus businesses could exploit and poison people for a profit)

litterally your only argument is greed. any system that allows for greed to flourish is a faulty system.

our current system as well as any socialist and communist or other planned market system in any size or scale is faulty and does not work.

Every single reason you give on our current "Capitalist" system is a good reason to avoid any collectivist system, planned market system and is more reason to support a free market (free market DOESNT mean no regulation. regulation exists to protect the people, environment as well as protecting businesses from racketeering and practices that allow others to eat up large sums of the market...)

Jan 11, 18 at 2:08pm
jtibbs

I never said free market/captialism are bad. they're fantasitc ideas when people don't take advantage for their own gain.

Jan 11, 18 at 2:09pm
daggerfella
<3

well it seems to be the whole time you shat on my complaints about collectivist systems, and shat all over my idea of supporting a free market.

you should have said so sooner @Midas as AGAIN it seems we are arguing the same thing AGAIN.

Jan 11, 18 at 2:11pm
jtibbs

I was only arguing that communism/socialism weren't inherently bad from conception. I stated that multiple times.

Jan 11, 18 at 2:27pm
daggerfella
<3

Well its bad as its more abusable.

And people advocating for the government have more power to be abused or four Industries to be in the hands of people who are incapable should not be put in the power. This is a shitpost and shouldn't have been taken as seriously as you did as this isn't even the serious discussion board. But I'm glad I serious is scussion ended up coming from it without the serious discussion being derailed. So thanks I guess.

Jan 11, 18 at 3:46pm
john_felix

Even in the best case scenarios, there's just so much that goes wrong in communism and socialism involving human psychology. The killing of personal initiative, people having no reason to value goods and property that they don't own, treating citizens like children instead of adults. Even if you somehow put together a society out of a scientific class, you'd have people wanting to push their own pet projects-- politics and egos would still get in the way of reaching goals; then on top of that you're not free to take action without a hand in your business.

I think what truly advances civilization is a combination of "ethics" and "vision"; something you don't get with coddling to soothe the belly. Actually, I had a discussion with a friend on this not long ago; where I asked what happens when the group decides that an individual making a capital investment isn't worth the risk to the rest of society? Innovation stops.

Jan 13, 18 at 11:39am
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